Re: Fwd: reiser4 non-free?

[Hans Reiser <reiser@namesys.com>]

Don Armstrong wrote:

>On Thu, 29 Apr 2004, Hans Reiser wrote:
>  
>
>>So hopefully, Debian can print out some nice warning that Reiser4 is
>>not plagiarizable, and if the user indicates that they still want to
>>use it anyway, they can go forward.
>>    
>>
>
>We have to ascertain as well that we can even legally distribute
>it. Assuming reiser4 is not a derivative work of any other GPLed code,
>there shouldn't be a problem with it in non-free, but if it is, we
>cannot distribute it at all, as the extra clarifications clearly are
>not GPL compatible.
>
>  
>
>>I find Debian's aggressive behavior toward myself, and especially
>>Richard Stallman and his GFDL, to be inappropriate and ungrateful,
>>    
>>
>
>Just to clarify, what you are seeing is individuals who may (or may
>not) be associated with the Debian project, not Debian itself. [This
>is no less different than conflating yourself with the University of
>Erlangen-Nürnberg or Richard with the FSF.]
>  
>
Putting Stallman's (or FSF's) work in the non-free section of your 
distribution is the lack of respect and gratitude that I speak of.

>  
>
>>I also understand that Debian is striving to define its morality,
>>and that much of the world shares its rather asian attitude towards
>>whether it is acceptable to not credit others for their
>>contributions to science. I do not. I think the western approach of
>>rigor in attribution has been of great value in stimulating
>>innovation over the centuries, and think it should be applied to
>>free software as much as it was to free science research.
>>    
>>
>
>I don't think anyone involved in Debian or in the larger Debian
>community feels that you or Richard, or any other contributor to the
>Free Software movement should fail to be properly recognized for their
>voluminous contributions to the movement.
>
>What I, and others who also have contributed to this movement object
>to is the abridging of freedoms to attain the secondary goal of
>rigorous attribution.
>
>I know in my own scientific work I expect that people who use the
>ideas that come from my work to cite and refer to the work which
>spawned their ideas in an appropriate manner.
>
This happens due to peer reviewed journals in science.  In free software 
there is no such social mechanism affecting RedHat and preventing them 
from removing the k from all the kde programs.  In fact there is a 
tradition among marketeers to debrand all inclusions into a product 
which is the exact opposite of fairly attribute, and they act in 
accordance with that tradition.  This is a real problem.

> However, I am loth to
>define exactly how they refer to my work, as this can be as stifling
>to their ability to build upon my work as me failing to publish or
>communicate it.
>
>Rest assured that many of us are practitioners of rigorous attribution
>and would not fail to attribute someone appropriately.
>
Uh no, you already did, you removed the credits from ReiserFS (none of 
which are credits for me, please keep that in mind, I do not take this 
stand for my personal benefit, my name is on the filesystem and that is 
more than enough credit for me).

> However, we are
>also well aware that the nature of attribution changes from medium to
>medium, and that a form of attribution rigorously defined by license
>would necessarily interfere with the ability of the end user to modify
>the work in ways that are traditionally embraced by the Free Software
>community at large.
>  
>
What alternative do you offer to ensure that attribution occurs?  None.  
There is no alternative actually.  Also, the end user is not the issue, 
I think the current phrasing even defines that the end user can remove them.

>As always, if I can assist you in finding a method to bring your
>wishes in harmony with the DFSG and Debian, please don't hesitate to
>let me know.
>
>
>Don Armstrong
>
>  
>